<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?><article xmlns:mml="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
<front>
<journal-meta>
<journal-id>1517-9702</journal-id>
<journal-title><![CDATA[Educação e Pesquisa]]></journal-title>
<abbrev-journal-title><![CDATA[Educ. Pesqui.]]></abbrev-journal-title>
<issn>1517-9702</issn>
<publisher>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Faculdade de Educação da Universidade de São Paulo]]></publisher-name>
</publisher>
</journal-meta>
<article-meta>
<article-id>S1517-97022017000300915</article-id>
<article-id pub-id-type="doi">10.1590/S1517-97022017430300201</article-id>
<title-group>
<article-title xml:lang="pt"><![CDATA[Tratar e educar o autismo: cen&#225;rio pol&#237;tico atual &#8211; entrevista com Pierre Delion]]></article-title>
<article-title xml:lang="en"><![CDATA[Treat and educate autism: a current political scene - interview with Pierre Delion]]></article-title>
</title-group>
<contrib-group>
<contrib contrib-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[Kupfer]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Maria Cristina Machado]]></given-names>
</name>
<xref ref-type="aff" rid="Aff"/>
</contrib>
<contrib contrib-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[Voltolini]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Rinaldo]]></given-names>
</name>
<xref ref-type="aff" rid="Aff"/>
</contrib>
</contrib-group>
<aff id="A">
<institution><![CDATA[,mckupfer@usp.br  ]]></institution>
<addr-line><![CDATA[ ]]></addr-line>
</aff>
<aff id="A">
<institution><![CDATA[,rvoltolini@usp.br  ]]></institution>
<addr-line><![CDATA[ ]]></addr-line>
</aff>
<aff id="Af1">
<institution><![CDATA[,Universidade de São Paulo  ]]></institution>
<addr-line><![CDATA[São Paulo SP]]></addr-line>
<country>Brasil</country>
</aff>
<pub-date pub-type="pub">
<day>00</day>
<month>09</month>
<year>2017</year>
</pub-date>
<pub-date pub-type="epub">
<day>00</day>
<month>09</month>
<year>2017</year>
</pub-date>
<volume>43</volume>
<numero>3</numero>
<fpage>915</fpage>
<lpage>930</lpage>
<copyright-statement/>
<copyright-year/>
<self-uri xlink:href="http://educa.fcc.org.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&amp;pid=S1517-97022017000300915&amp;lng=en&amp;nrm=iso"></self-uri><self-uri xlink:href="http://educa.fcc.org.br/scielo.php?script=sci_abstract&amp;pid=S1517-97022017000300915&amp;lng=en&amp;nrm=iso"></self-uri><self-uri xlink:href="http://educa.fcc.org.br/scielo.php?script=sci_pdf&amp;pid=S1517-97022017000300915&amp;lng=en&amp;nrm=iso"></self-uri><abstract abstract-type="short" xml:lang="pt"><p><![CDATA[Resumo A entrevista aborda as rela&#231;&#245;es atuais entre medicina, pedagogia, psicologia em torno do trabalho com crian&#231;as que apresentam problemas graves de desenvolvimento, que tendem a ser classificadas como TEA (transtornos do espectro autista), bem como apresenta um balan&#231;o da experi&#234;ncia do professor Pierre Delion na universidade e no servi&#231;o p&#250;blico franc&#234;s. Em nosso mundo atual, num momento em que uma tens&#227;o significativa se estabeleceu em torno da quest&#227;o da conceitua&#231;&#227;o e do trabalho com o autismo, em seguida a decis&#245;es governamentais pol&#234;micas, ocorridas em v&#225;rios pa&#237;ses, notadamente Brasil e Fran&#231;a, procuramos interrogar o professor Delion acerca de sua experi&#234;ncia como m&#233;dico, acostumado h&#225; d&#233;cadas com o trabalho conjunto com educadores, psic&#243;logos e cuidadores em geral dessas crian&#231;as. Se, de um lado, podemos notar em nosso contexto atual uma tend&#234;ncia do meio pedag&#243;gico em dire&#231;&#227;o &#224; l&#243;gica medico-psicol&#243;gica, que se pretende dominante no caso espec&#237;fico do trabalho com as crian&#231;as autistas, por outro, torna-se curioso acompanhar as reflex&#245;es de um m&#233;dico fazendo o caminho inverso e sublinhando a import&#226;ncia de n&#227;o se perder de vista o car&#225;ter educativo na abordagem com essas crian&#231;as. O objetivo principal dessa entrevista &#233; colocar em relevo os elementos fundamentais para compreender o autismo e o trabalho com ele, partindo de uma experi&#234;ncia consolidada por meio de pesquisas e de trabalho di&#225;rio em institui&#231;&#227;o, sem sucumbir a pol&#234;micas ideol&#243;gicas que disputam campos a partir de posi&#231;&#245;es previamente estabelecidas.]]></p></abstract>
<abstract abstract-type="short" xml:lang="en"><p><![CDATA[Abstract The interview discusses the current relations between medicine, pedagogy, and psychology concerning the work with children who have pervasive developmental disorders and tend to be classified as ASD (autism spectrum disorders), and also gives an overview of the experience of Professor Pierre Delion at university and in public service in France. In today&#8217;s world, in such a specific moment when a significant tension settled around the matter of the conceptualization and the work with autism, after controversial government decisions that occurred in several countries, notably Brazil and France, it is aimed to interrogate Professor Delion about his experience as a doctor, for decades accustomed to working together with educators, psychologists and general caregivers of these children. If on the one hand, it is possible to notice in our present context a trend of pedagogical means to tilt towards the medico-psychological logic that is to be dominant in the specific case of dealing with autistic children, on the other it is curious to follow the thoughts of a doctor doing the opposite approach and stressing the importance of not losing sight of the educational character in dealing with these children. The main objective of this interview is to stand out the key elements to understand autism and the work with it, from a consolidated experience through research and daily work in an institution, without succumbing to ideological controversies that dispute fields from positions previously established.]]></p></abstract>
<kwd-group>
<kwd lng="pt"><![CDATA[Autismo]]></kwd>
<kwd lng="pt"><![CDATA[Educação]]></kwd>
<kwd lng="pt"><![CDATA[Ensino]]></kwd>
<kwd lng="pt"><![CDATA[Tratamento]]></kwd>
<kwd lng="pt"><![CDATA[Psicanálise]]></kwd>
<kwd lng="en"><![CDATA[Autism]]></kwd>
<kwd lng="en"><![CDATA[Education]]></kwd>
<kwd lng="en"><![CDATA[Teaching]]></kwd>
<kwd lng="en"><![CDATA[Treatment]]></kwd>
<kwd lng="en"><![CDATA[Psychoanalysis]]></kwd>
</kwd-group>
</article-meta>
</front><back>
<ref-list>
<ref id="B1">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[AFLALO]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Agnès]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Autisme: nouveaux spectres, nouveaux marchés]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Navarin/Le Champ Freudien]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B2">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[BETTELHEIM]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Bruno]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[A fortaleza vazia]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[São Paulo ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Martins Fontes]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B3">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Collectif: la parentalité exposée]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Toulouse ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Erès]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B4">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[La consultation avec l&#8217;enfant: approche psychopathologique du bébe à l&#8217;adolescent]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Elsévier/Masson]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B5">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[La fonction parentale]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Bruxelles ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Fabert]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B6">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Le corps retrouvé]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Hermann]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B7">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Le développement de l&#8217;enfant expliqué aux enfants d&#8217;aujourd&#8217;hui]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Tolouse ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Erès]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B8">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[L&#8217;enfant autiste, le bébé et la sémiotique]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Presses Universitaires de France]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B9">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[L&#8217;enfant difficile]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Bruxelles ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Fabert]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B10">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[L&#8217;enfant hyperactive: son développement et la prediction de la délinquance: qu&#8217;en penser aujourd&#8217;hui?]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Bruxelles ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Fabert]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B11">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[L&#8217;observation directe du bébé selon Esther Bick: son intérêt dans la pédopsychiatrie aujourd&#8217;hui?]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Toulouse ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Erès-poche]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B12">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Prendre un enfant autiste pour la main]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Dunod]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B13">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Séminaire sur l&#8217;autisme et la psychose infantile]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Tolouse ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Erès-poche]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B14">
<nlm-citation citation-type="journal">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[KANNER]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Leo]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<article-title xml:lang="en"><![CDATA[Autistic disturbances of affective contact]]></article-title>
<source><![CDATA[Nervous Children]]></source>
<year></year>
<volume>2</volume>
<page-range>217-50</page-range></nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B15">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[KUPFER]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Maria Cristina Machado]]></given-names>
</name>
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[PINTO]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Fernanda de Sousa e Castro Noya]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Lugar de vida, vinte anos depois: exercícios de educação terapêutica]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[São Paulo ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Escuta]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B16">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[LAURENT]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Eric]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[A batalha do autismo: da clínica à política]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Rio de Janeiro ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Zahar]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B17">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[MILLER]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Jacques-Alain]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[L&#8217;anti livre noir de la psychanalyse]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Seuil]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B18">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[VOLTOLINI]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Rinaldo]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Retratos do mal-estar contemporâneo na educação]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[São Paulo ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Fapesp: Escuta]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B19">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[L&#8217;enfant autiste, le bébé et la sémiotique]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Presses Universitaires de France]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B20">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[L&#8217;observation directe du bébé selon Esther Bick: son intérêt dans la pédopsychiatrie aujourd&#8217;hui?]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Toulouse ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Erès-Poche]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B21">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[L&#8217;enfant hyperactive: son développement et la prediction de la délinquance: qu&#8217;en penser aujourd&#8217;hui?]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Bruxelles ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Éditions Fabert]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B22">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[La fonction parentale]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Bruxelles ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Fabert]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B23">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Séminaire sur l&#8217;autisme et la psychose infantile]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Tolouse ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Erès-Poche]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B24">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[La consultation avec l&#8217;enfant: approche psychopathologique du bébe à l&#8217;adolescent]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Elsévier/Masson]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B25">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Le corps retrouvé]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Hermann]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B26">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Prendre un enfant autiste pour la main]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Paris ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Dunod]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B27">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Le développement de l&#8217;enfant expliqué aux enfants d&#8217;aujourd&#8217;hui]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Tolouse ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Erès]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B28">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[L&#8217;enfant difficile]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Bruxelles ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Fabert]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
<ref id="B29">
<nlm-citation citation-type="book">
<person-group person-group-type="author">
<name>
<surname><![CDATA[DELION]]></surname>
<given-names><![CDATA[Pierre]]></given-names>
</name>
</person-group>
<source><![CDATA[Collectif: la parentalité exposée]]></source>
<year></year>
<publisher-loc><![CDATA[Toulouse ]]></publisher-loc>
<publisher-name><![CDATA[Erès]]></publisher-name>
</nlm-citation>
</ref>
</ref-list>
</back>
</article>
